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Supreme Being
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Forsaken (8/15/2007)
No, but the close ties of their music to symphonic power metal might.
Bottom line is that genre labeling is done by people. And wherever there are people involved, there are conflicting opinions.
If a band is generally called gothic metal, I'll have a broad idea of what to expect. I can then proceed to argue whether goth metal is true metal (or true goth, something entirely different) or not, but does it matter? Music is here to enjoy, not so everyone can show how much of an elitist they are by putting down anything they don't like.I even have trouble calling a lot of Symphonic power metal as metal. So much of it has more to do with hard rock (like the first two albums from Europe, or Pretty Maids), than actual power metal.It's not really a matter of conflicting opinions. For people that actually know about the music and the bands, what genre they would fall into would be a general consensus. Fans that know hardly anything about thrash, want to categorize bands like Lamb Of God, Devildriver and Trivium as such. But to any real thrash fan, that would be considered heresy. But anyway, you pretty much proved my point for the need of genre classifications. We can argue whether or not goth metal is actually metal until our faces turn blue, but the bottom line is, you do realize that the sub-genre classification is indeed necessary. If someone says goth "metal", you would pretty much know what to expect from that, so you would be willing to check it out (whereas I would make sure to avoid it like the plague).
- What you used to love now, you're gonna adore. With Charmin Ultra, less is more. Cha Cha Cha, Charmin.
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I'm Scared
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Well, I never called or considered either Europe or Pretty Maids as symphonic power. For that, I'm looking more along the lines of Rhapsody.
The conflicting opinion isn't always an issue, no. I'm sure no-one would classify Black Sabbath as black metal. But what about borderline bands like Iced Earth and Nevermore, what do you call them?
Slightly off-track, but on their latest album Trivium is desperately trying to sound exactly like Metallica. So I guess that it would be thrash there. Bad thrash at that, but still thrash.
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Supreme Being
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Iced Earth and Nevermore are tough calls. IMHO, and if a gun were held to my head, I would say both are somewhat like power thrash. Both have strong, powerful elements in addition to thrash elements.
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Supreme Being
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Forsaken (8/15/2007)
Well, I never called or considered either Europe or Pretty Maids as symphonic power. For that, I'm looking more along the lines of Rhapsody.
The conflicting opinion isn't always an issue, no. I'm sure no-one would classify Black Sabbath as black metal. But what about borderline bands like Iced Earth and Nevermore, what do you call them?
Slightly off-track, but on their latest album Trivium is desperately trying to sound exactly like Metallica. So I guess that it would be thrash there. Bad thrash at that, but still thrash.I didn't say Europe and Pretty Maids were symphonic power metal. What I said was that symphonic power metal bands (like Crapsody) are closer to the sound of Europe, than they are to Running Wild. Iced Earth and Nevermore are a mix of styles. Iced Earth's first album was power/thrash metal. After that, they were pretty much an old-school power metal band (in the vein of old Fates Warning, Liege Lord or Agent Steel). Nevermore mixes progressive metal with alternative rock. They're still not thrash. They're just a shitty metalcore band that rips off Metallica riffs.
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I'm Scared
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I... Well, I have no smartass way to say it, so I'll just say I disagree. Symphonic power metal is just power metal with an extra layer or cheesiness. I don't see how that suddenly loses it all power metal status.
I'll have to disagree on Nevermore, too. There's definitely more than slight hints of power and thrash in their sound, while I can't make out your alt rock statement.
...Yeah, I think I just subjectively disagreed on your labeling.
Trivium... If they're just a shitty band that rips off Metallica riffs (and vocals), where exactly do you get the metalcore part from?
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Supreme Being
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| Actual power metal, and symphonic power metal, sound absolutely nothing alike. Power metal is meant to be heavy, fast, powerful and aggressive (like it was in the 80's). All these flower metal bands are fast, but they lack everything else that makes a band "power metal". Listen to Europe's Scream Of Anger. The modern flower metal bands sound more like this (except absolutely nowhere near as good as older Europe), and Helloween's pop metal singles (like Eagle Fly Free and I Want Out), but just played at faster tempos, devoid of emotion (I don't care how fast they can shred, I'd like to see Luca Turilli play a guitar lead, crafted as emotionally and beautifully, like the intro for The Guardian), or any real musical depth. Nevermore has a lot of alternative rock influences in their guitars and songs. Just listen to songs like Inside Four Walls or The Death Of Passion. I still love Nevermore, but you can't deny the alternative rock leanings. Because the Metallica riffs aren't a vital part of Trivium's sound. They songs are closer to bands like Lamb Of God, they just throw in cliche guitar leads and try to rip off James' vocals. That doesn't make them a thrash band. That just makes them a metalcore/modern poser metal band pretending to be thrash.
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I'm Scared
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No.
Really though, any continuation on this conversation is just going to result in both of us being pissed off because "the other has absolutely no clue about metal, labelling band X as genre Y".
Now... Is there any way to somehow get this topic back on goth again?
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Supreme Being
Group: LFM Metal DB | | | |